Mark Baker, Founder, and CEO of Motivated Maids comes on to Smart Business Moves to speak his mind about the industry.
In this great episode, Mark and Liz get into it about turnover rates of the industry, outsourcing. and more. Mark goes in deep on the cost of running a business, what the cost of your turnover can turn out to be, and how to tell if a customer has the aptitude for the business. Watch this episode now by clicking the link below!
Episode Highlights
Who is Mark Baker? Mark runs Motivated Maids in Newfoundland, Canada, using 100% independent contractors. He said his business was shut down for five and a half months with zero income during the pandemic. On the day of the show, he paid off about $40,000 in short-term debt that had built up during the shutdown. He's working with a consultant on what he called an unprecedented initiative for the cleaning industry, launching January 1, but he wouldn't share details.
Canada's pandemic relief. Tom asked whether Canada offered small-business help. Mark said aid was easier to roll out there because the provinces see themselves first as Canadians, and the parties didn't fight over relief. He said he could enter his prior-year payroll number online and receive $60,000 within three days, with five years of no interest and no payments. He also said relief covered sole proprietors and people without business accounts. Personally, he received $2,000 within two days of the shutdown and then regular $2,000 payments for six months. The transcript is garbled on whether those came every two weeks or monthly. These are Mark's descriptions of the programs, not verified terms.
The core hard truth. Mark argued that most problems in the industry, including poor quality and call-outs, come from not having enough of the right people to do the work. He pushed back on owners who promise cleaners "a job for life." In his view, $10–$12 an hour for cleaning toilets is below the poverty line and isn't a job anyone wants for life, which is why turnover happens. He compared the industry to coffee chains, where a few long-tenured staff hide 300–400% turnover overall. Liz countered that some people genuinely choose cleaning as a career, such as successful solo cleaners. Mark agreed but called them outliers.
Supply and demand. Mark said owners who talk about "giving" cleaners a job have it backward. He argued that if he had access to 10,000 good cleaning pros he'd be worth $500 million, because finding work is easy and finding people to do it well is hard. He said he works for the cleaning pros in his network, while keeping strict quality standards.
How he pays 80% to cleaners. Mark's company now pays contractors 80% of what it bills. Before, contractors earned 40–55% on a sliding scale tied to quality scores. The change came after a 2019 Las Vegas round table, where Mark said no one had a real solution to turnover, and a team member told him he couldn't live on $17 an hour. To free up the money, Mark cut roughly $250,000 in salaries, including a manager earning $50,000–$60,000 plus benefits, an assistant manager, an IT person, and a field manager. That work now costs about $40,000. He also changed software platforms and moved customer support to Freshdesk after what he called a "bait and switch" from Zendesk over training costs. He said he pays about $400 USD a month for a college-educated, English-speaking support agent abroad, and about $3 an hour for HR help in the Philippines. He admitted he had to weigh the ethics of moving jobs out of Canada, but said the savings went to the front lines.
His margins. Tom and Liz questioned how the math works. Mark said total overhead runs no more than 8% of revenue, with about a 12% profit before interest and taxes. He said his office costs under $1,000 a month because contractors never come in. Tom said he has seen many industry financial statements and that these numbers are unusually low. Mark also said his company used to make a hydrogen peroxide–based multipurpose cleaner for 11 cents a bottle and sell it to contractors for $1 less than Walmart.
Contractor status. Liz asked whether the model was a hybrid between contractor and employee. Mark said no, it's fully contractor-based, and that his company stays far from that line. Tom noted that it might look like a hybrid under U.S. rules, and Liz said the Canadian rules are more lenient.
No interviews. Mark said his company dropped interviews entirely and now has single-digit turnover. His reasoning was that interviewers carry unavoidable biases, such as the halo effect and the similar-to-me effect, and that most owners would find their interview-based hiring record poor if they checked it. Instead, he has candidates screen themselves out through a series of steps.
- A simple job post on Indeed. The post covers job highlights only, with no resume required. Mark said this produced thousands of applicants, around 5,000 in his example.
- The company website. Applicants are encouraged to read about the company and the job before applying there.
- A short application with knockout questions. It asks about criminal background and pending charges, the ability to stoop, bend, and kneel, and whether the applicant is of legal age to sign an enforceable contract.
- An offer to everyone who passes. The offer comes with a short welcome video and four more videos on what the work involves. Mark stressed replying to every applicant within 24 hours, calling it human respect and good branding.
- Formal acceptance. Applicants must confirm they've read the material, for contract-law compliance. Mark said this step cut 2,500 offers to about 500.
- Online training at the Motivated Maids Academy. The course covers professional house cleaning, the legal side of working as a contractor, and taxes. Mark said training is technically optional, but contractors who can't clean to spec get no more work. Anyone who doesn't finish within about a week is deleted, which leaves roughly 100 of the original 5,000.
- Practice cleans and equipment. Candidates practice on their own homes, then on friends' and neighbors' homes, and buy their own products and equipment for about $500–$600.
- Self-onboarding. Contractors choose their own hours and service areas. Some work overnight.
Mark said he often never meets his contractors. He described meeting one of his top performers by video for the first time after six months of working together.
Aptitude. Tom pressed several times for concrete signs that a candidate has an aptitude for the work. Mark's answer was essentially "who knows," and he said what matters is transparency about the job up front, without selling it. He mentioned an aptitude course by Angela Brown, which his company runs as a Quizitri-style quiz. The transcript doesn't name the course clearly, so please verify the name.
Pay and flexibility. Mark said contractors make at least $19.40 an hour and about $24 on average before tips and add-ons, presumably in Canadian dollars. He said flexible scheduling matters as much as pay, for example letting parents work around school drop-off or a child's support sessions. He also lets contractors avoid areas they don't want to drive in, such as St. John's narrow downtown streets.
Handling complaints. When a customer complains, support sends a standard response explaining the guarantee and asks the contractor for their side within a set time. The company then resolves the issue using set criteria, and a support agent holds a video coaching call with the contractor. Mark described his team's role as success coaches for micro-business owners rather than bosses.
Bigger picture. Mark argued that whatever the business model, owners who don't treat their providers' success as their own will be left behind by the gig economy. Tom compared this to Ken Blanchard's upside-down organizational pyramid. Mark pointed to BYU's micro-franchising work in Africa and Jamaica as an example of gig-style work combined with franchise principles.
Other mentions. Mark praised Booking Koala's back-end tools and offered to share details with Tom privately. Liz mentioned a new MaidCentral feature that applies price increases to all customers at once, and Mark said he's a fan. Mark also thanked Tom for his role in a PHC course he was taking the next day. The transcript calls the provider the "rxc learning center," possibly ARCSI, so please verify.
Mark's closing thought. Mark said the business is about people. He argued that owners need cleaners more than cleaners need them and must create a real win for cleaners, customers, and owners alike.
